Hi Simona Weiss 

Are you using Trados Studio 2022 with the latest CU?

If yes please keep this in mind: https://gateway.rws.com/csm?id=kb_article_view&sysparm_article=KB0035173


Lyds

Hi Lydia S,

Thank you for your answer. Yes, I am using the Trados Studio 2022 with the latest CU.

This is really not helpful at all!!! When I am checking how much I have left of the project, I want to know how many words I have left to translate. The number/percentage of segments left untranslated is irrelevant, since it gives me no indication regarding the volume of work I still have to do!!!!
It would be great to at least have the option to select whether I want the percentage to show me segments or words, as it is in the file.

Can anything be done in this direction?

 Simona Weiss 

Simona Weiss said:

Can anything be done in this direction?

Perhaps you can use the Work In Progress Report?  Many users are not aware of the existence of this report but it is quite useful.  Run the batch task called "WIP Report":

You might also find the simple confirmation statistics is easy to use.  Just select your project or your file and look at the "Confrmation Statistics" tabat the bottom of your screen:

Theodor Pitsch said:

This has worked great so far. Why does someone have the idea to change that? What nonsense! 

Well... it depends on what you think the "Progress" column is supposed to be measuring.  If you don't think handling tags and empty segments is relevant then that's where your opinion differs from many others who recognise that everything is work you have to address.  So the progress bar should reflect this.  It's certainly not nonsense!

If you just want a wordcount then perhaps one of the suggestions above will be useful for you too.

Paul said: "Well... it depends on what you think the "Progress" column is supposed to be measuring. "

Since I started working with Trados (2015), this progress bar has been a reliable indicator. And as Simona Weiss writes, the current form is useless. I also don't think anyone has complained about it or likes the current form.
Why does Trados go and change something like this that nobody wants? And why not just undo it?

Theodor Pitsch 

Theodor Pitsch said:

Since I started working with Trados (2015), this progress bar has been a reliable indicator. And as Simona Weiss writes, the current form is useless. I also don't think anyone has complained about it or likes the current form.

You haven't been using the software for long and I imagine you don't have much insight, if any, into what requests we have from our userbase.  You also haven't answered my question about far more useful indicators of progress.

I have explained that the reason this was changed is because it was actually inaccurate.  Perhaps you only ever translate very basic documentation and have never come across the sort of files which would cause this progress bar to be incorrect?  Perhaps you could even share a screenshot showing what you are looking at and explain why it's a problem for you?  Maybe we're not even looking at the same thing?

Sorry Paul, I started using Trados in 2015, and you say that I haven't been using this software for long. Seven years not long enough to see what is good and what is not good? 

And you imply that I translate only basic documents. You cannot judge that.

You are rigt, I have not much insight into what your userbase requests. But in this forum I can'f find any request for changing the method of counting the progress. But now are at least two entries who do not like the change.

If a few demanding users prefer the new calculation method, why do you bump all the other users in the head?
Wouldn't it have been better to offer the new calculation method in addition and leave the old one as it was (and as it still is in the editor window)?

You accuse me of not answering a question - what question and where is it?

I get the impression that you don't care what users write. You change the program as you see fit, and users should take it as it is.

 Theodor Pitsch 

Theodor Pitsch said:

But in this forum I can'f find any request for changing the method of counting the progress. But now are at least two entries who do not like the change.

You think this forum is the only place we receive requests?

Theodor Pitsch said:

I have not much insight into what your userbase requests.

Correct.

Theodor Pitsch said:

And you imply that I translate only basic documents. You cannot judge that.

Well... if you did then you would probably be happy about this change.

Theodor Pitsch said:

You accuse me of not answering a question - what question and where is it?

These...

Paul said:

Perhaps you can use the Work In Progress Report? 

Paul said:

You might also find the simple confirmation statistics is easy to use.  Just select your project or your file and look at the "Confrmation Statistics" tabat the bottom of your screen

Paul said:

If you don't think handling tags and empty segments is relevant then that's where your opinion differs from many others who recognise that everything is work you have to address.  So the progress bar should reflect this. 

The last one isn't a question exactly, but perhaps you can explain why you have a problem with the change made in the progress column in the files view.  You have not shown me once why your opinion should carry any weight as it lacks context and recognition of the reasons it was changed.  Just because you used it for one thing doesn't mean that's what it was intended for.

Theodor Pitsch said:

I get the impression that you don't care what users write. You change the program as you see fit, and users should take it as it is.

Why would we do that?  Perhaps think that through!

Paul: "You have not shown me once why your opinion should carry any weight"

And you think you would have done that?

Theodor Pitsch 

Theodor Pitsch said:

And you think you would have done that?

Of course.  It's not your opinion because of who you are, it's because of what you have demonstrated and explained why it's wrong.

Theodor Pitsch 

Theodor Pitsch said:

And you think you would have done that?

Of course.  It's not your opinion because of who you are, it's because of what you have demonstrated and explained why it's wrong.

I've looked at some other discussions in the meantime and seen that you never back down even an inch. Then there is no point in continuing here. 

Regarding the issue at hand, the new percentage (for segments) is much higher than the actual one, in terms of words, so for those of us used to reading the progress here, it is misleading. For better overview, there should be (here too) the possibility to select what percentage you want to display - segments or words.

And I have to say, the way you answer is very unprofessional. I don't think that users who have been using your product for years (I really don't know what "long" means to you, if 7 years is not long) deserve to be spoken to like you have to Theodor Pitsch. After all, he is a client, no matter for how long, and he has a complaint about a feature he has found useful and used for years and that has vanished overnight.

You (RWS) should try and be a bit more professional in this regard too, or at least designate someone with people skills to answer such issues.

Simona Weiss Theodor Pitsch 

Simona Weiss said:

You (RWS) should try and be a bit more professional in this regard too, or at least designate someone with people skills to answer such issues.

I'm not designated to answer any questions, and I'm also doing this in my own time on the weekend.  I actually like to try and help users, I do it often, and I am also happy to acknowledge when I'm wrong. If you actually read my initial response I offered a couple of suggestions which neither of you bothered to read.  Instead you continue to question the change that was made without acknowledging, or even trying to understand, why it was made at all.

I can understand you being upset that something changed that you were used to.  But it doesn't mean that the change should be undone if the feature was actually incorrect in the first place.  I can see the conversation got out of hand a little and I allowed myself to react to this.  I apologise for that.  I am not, and never will be, a proponent of the customer is always right because often they are not, but I should have simply not replied at all if a reasoned discussion was unlikely.

I'll finish with just one simple example to try and explain.  Feel free to reply if you like, or not.

I took this small file:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<progress>
<para>Show me how much work I have left to do</para>
<tags_only><inline a="a tag" /><inline b="b tag" /><inline c="c tag" /></tags_only>
<para>Placing tags is also work</para>
<merge>If I merge segments here what </merge>
<merge>does that do to the count?</merge>
</progress>

I then created a custom xml filetype for it so it looks like this when I open it:

I then created my project and analysed the file with my TM.  The view you use looks like this:

In fact the confirmation statistics pane in the same Files view also shows this more clearly:

All good so far.  Now I work on the file and after getting this far I analyse the file again and check my stats in an old version:

The wordcount is correct.  I have translated all 27 words.  But the file is not complete.  So for many users the progress indicator would definitely be incorrect.  It is not supposed to be showing a progress in words, it's a simple view of the progress of the file.  In contrast in Trados Studio 2022 the result shows this:

This is correct in terms of progress because the file is not finished.  Segment #2 has not been addressed.  It's also worth noting that the confirmation statistics show this in the old version:

This is also wrong.  The words translated are correct, but the segment count is incorrect because I merged the last two segments and now there are four, not five as shown here.  In Trados Studio 2022 the same view is this:

Correctly showing four segments.

I really hope you do take the time to review this thread and you'll see that you had been provided with the reason for the change, and explanation and some solutions to your problem that are just as easy as looking at the progress bar.  I'm also hoping you'll be able to follow what I have written here and will see that Trados Studio 2022 has resolved both problems of not counting incomplete segments where they were tags only, and also where segments were merged during translation.  For anyone working with files that have scenarios like this, especially large files in projects with many files in them, seeing files 100% complete when they really were not can be a painful experience in terms of managing the work.

Now I understand what is meant: 3 of 4 segments are done, that is 75%.
In fact, the work is much more advanced: Only one segment with 2 tags is missing. To finally copy this to the target to confirm cannot account for 25% of the work done.
Therefore I consider the indication of 75% all the more wrong.
The translators, who unlike me, have to translate "highly sophisticated" texts, will have already had the indication of untranslated segments. But all other users have meant the actual progress, a measure of the work done and what still needs to be done.
As someone who does not have "highly sophisticated" texts to translate, I do not complete any work without making sure that there are no unconfirmed segments. Is that too much to ask of "highly sophisticated" translators? If so, then you have done everything right with this change. Too bad all the other users are left behind!

Hi Paul 

I would not have known that a change had been made, so I am glad this came up in the forum. Otherwise I would have assumed it was a bug.

The change is a bit confusing, since the progress bar indicates the number of segments now, but the other columns (depending on the layout chosen) show the number of words and there is no indication anywhere that the progress bar is different.

RWS clearly knows that both words and segments are important to translators. You can see both words and segments in the confirmation statistics and can choose words or segments in the editor status bar.

So I think that if I had been making the change I would have added an option to the "Layout" section of the ribbon.

In addition to choosing the layout, I would have let the user choose words or segments for the progress bar.

I can't imagine this would be all that difficult, since the code for a progress bar based on the number of words is still lying around somewhere.

Bruce Campbell 

The progress bar indicates progress.  It just happens to use segments because using words is unreliable. You can see words, characters, segments in the confirmation statistics tab in this same view already.  I think if you guys want to make a case for this then I suggest you use the ideas site for it.  There is already an idea here from Camelia Geary  so make your arguments in there and vote for her idea.

 Please go back to Progress Bar focusing on words not segments