EntryID during conversion from TBX to XML + XDT

Hello,

currently, I'm working on the conversion of a TBX export from an "external" terminology database into the MultiTerm XML format to be able to import the entries into a MultiTerm database. I've tried "MultiTerm 2022 SR1 Convert" (17.1.2185) as well as the GlossayConverter (6.2.8543.33526).

Unfortunately, with both applications I'm facing the following problem and I don't know, why it behaves as it behaves.
During the conversion process, the values of the "<termEntry id="XYZ">" in the TBX file are written to "<descripGrp><descrip type="conceptId">XYZ</descrip></descripGrp>" in the XML. Additionally, in the XML file, at the beginning of each term entry, I get "<conceptGrp><concept>{ascending number}</concept>".

The TBX file starts with:
"<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE martif SYSTEM "TBXcoreStructV02.dtd">
<martif type="TBX" xml:lang="de-DE">
<martifHeader>
 <fileDesc>
 <titleStmt>
 <title>Title</title>
 </titleStmt>
 <sourceDesc>
 
 </sourceDesc>
 </fileDesc>
 <encodingDesc>
 www.ttt.org/.../p>
 </encodingDesc>
 <revisionDesc>
 <change>
 2023-07-11 07:35:07 UTC
 </change>
 </revisionDesc>
</martifHeader>
<text>
 <body>
 <termEntry id="10001">
 ..."

In my opinion, the tag "concept" has to contain the value from "<termEntry id=" of the TBX instead of a "self given" number. Otherwise, it might lead to doublicated entries in the MultiTerm database.

My question now is, why is the value of "<termEntry id=" in the TBX written to a "descripGrp" group instead of into the "concept" tag of the XML?

And second: What do I have to do, to be able to convert the TBX file into a MultiTerm XML file where the term ID from the TBX is used as the term ID in the MultiTerm XML?

Thank you very much in advance for any hint and your support. :)
Your help is very much appreciated.

Kind regards and have a nice and easy day.
Nils

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Thread Subject & Description
EntryID during conversion from TBX to XML + XDT Hello, currently, I'm working on the conversion of a TBX export from an "external" terminology database into the MultiTerm XML format to be able to import the entries into a MultiTerm database. I've tried "MultiTerm 2022 SR1 Convert" (17.1.2185) as well as the GlossayConverter (6.2.8543.33526). Unfortunately, with both applications I'm facing the following problem and I don't know, why it behaves as it behaves. During the conversion process, the values of the "<termEntry id="XYZ">" in the TBX file are written to "<descripGrp><descrip type="conceptId">XYZ</descrip></descripGrp>" in the XML. Additionally, in the XML file, at the beginning of each term entry, I get "<conceptGrp><concept>{ascending number}</concept>". The TBX file starts with: "<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?> <!DOCTYPE martif SYSTEM "TBXcoreStructV02.dtd"> <martif type="TBX" xml:lang="de-DE"> <martifHeader> <fileDesc> <titleStmt> <title>Title</title> </titleStmt> <sourceDesc> </sourceDesc> </fileDesc> <encodingDesc> www.ttt.org/.../p> </encodingDesc> <revisionDesc> <change> 2023-07-11 07:35:07 UTC </change> </revisionDesc> </martifHeader> <text> <body> <termEntry id="10001"> ..." In my opinion, the tag "concept" has to contain the value from "<termEntry id=" of the TBX instead of a "self given" number. Otherwise, it might lead to doublicated entries in the MultiTerm database. My question now is, why is the value of "<termEntry id=" in the TBX written to a "descripGrp" group instead of into the "concept" tag of the XML? And second: What do I have to do, to be able to convert the TBX file into a MultiTerm XML file where the term ID from the TBX is used as the term ID in the MultiTerm XML? Thank you very much in advance for any hint and your support. :) Your help is very much appreciated. Kind regards and have a nice and easy day. Nils
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0 Paul over 1 year ago

Nils Jörn

It's very hard for me to understand your problem without a better sample file (I don't know the product well enough). So as an example I completed your file with a couple of terms:

<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?>
<!DOCTYPE martif SYSTEM "TBXcoreStructV02.dtd">
<martif type="TBX" xml:lang="de-DE">
  <martifHeader>
    <fileDesc>
      <titleStmt>
        <title>Title</title>
      </titleStmt>
      <sourceDesc>
        <p>Source Description</p>
      </sourceDesc>
    </fileDesc>
    <encodingDesc>
      <p type="XCSURI">www.ttt.org/.../</p>
    </encodingDesc>
    <revisionDesc>
      <change>
        <p>2023-07-11 07:35:07 UTC</p>
      </change>
    </revisionDesc>
  </martifHeader>
  <text>
    <body>
      <termEntry id="10001">
        <langSet xml:lang="de-DE">
          <tig>
            <term>Auto</term>
          </tig>
        </langSet>
        <langSet xml:lang="en-GB">
          <tig>
            <term>Car</term>
          </tig>
        </langSet>
      </termEntry>
      <termEntry id="10002">
        <langSet xml:lang="de-DE">
          <tig>
            <term>Fahrrad</term>
          </tig>
        </langSet>
        <langSet xml:lang="en-GB">
          <tig>
            <term>Bicycle</term>
          </tig>
        </langSet>
      </termEntry>
    </body>
  </text>
</martif>

Then tested with the Glossary Converter and also by using MultiTerm Convert. I don't think either of them can "force" MultiTerm to use the conceptid in MultiTerm as I think it has it's own mechanism for this. But at least the Glossary Converter can read the conceptid and add it as a new field at the entry level:

Screenshot showing how the TBX conerts properly inside MultiTerm with the ConceptID of the TBX being used as a conceptid entry ID.

MultiTerm Convert doesn't see this field at all.

Is this what you are trying to achieve? have MultiTerm use the same conceptid as the TBX?

I think in this case the TradosAI reply looks pretty good!

Paul Filkin | RWS Group

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0 Nils Jörn over 1 year ago in reply to Paul

Hello Paul ,

thank you very much for your soon response.

Yes, I'm trying to achieve, that MultiTerm uses the conceptID as Term ID ("Entry Id"). Therefore, yes, the AI answer looks pretty good.

Let me try to clarify my problem a little:
My problem is, that some terms are "doublicated" and (therefore) have different properties/values during updating the MultiTerm database with the XML.

One entry is:

But - after the import of an updated TBX/XML - the same term exists with a different "Entry ID", too. But in the originating TBX file, it's the same term, according to the conceptId:

I'd expected, that a term entry from the TBX file will ever be referenced as the one and the same term entry in the MultiTerm database as well. Not as possibly multiple entries in the XML/MultiTerm.

Does this clarify my problem a little deeper?

Thank you very much for your support.

Kind regards
Nils

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[edited by: Trados AI at 2:21 PM (GMT 0) on 5 Mar 2024]
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0 Nils Jörn over 1 year ago in reply to Paul

Hello Paul ,

thank you very much for your soon response.

Yes, I'm trying to achieve, that MultiTerm uses the conceptID as Term ID ("Entry Id"). Therefore, yes, the AI answer looks pretty good.

Let me try to clarify my problem a little:
My problem is, that some terms are "doublicated" and (therefore) have different properties/values during updating the MultiTerm database with the XML.

One entry is:

But - after the import of an updated TBX/XML - the same term exists with a different "Entry ID", too. But in the originating TBX file, it's the same term, according to the conceptId:

I'd expected, that a term entry from the TBX file will ever be referenced as the one and the same term entry in the MultiTerm database as well. Not as possibly multiple entries in the XML/MultiTerm.

Does this clarify my problem a little deeper?

Thank you very much for your support.

Kind regards
Nils

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[edited by: Trados AI at 2:21 PM (GMT 0) on 5 Mar 2024]
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0 Paul over 1 year ago in reply to Nils Jörn

Nils Jörn

Nils Jörn said:
Does this clarify my problem a little deeper?

Yes...

I think the reason why MultiTerm doesn't use the same conceptID as a TBX file is due to the different ways these two systems handle term management.

TBX (TermBase eXchange) is a standard format for exchanging terminology data, including concept IDs. Concept IDs in TBX are used to link related terms across different languages.

On the other hand, MultiTerm, uses its own internal system for managing and linking terms.

When you import a TBX file into MultiTerm using the Glossary Converter or MultiTerm Convert for example, the tool creates a new MultiTerm TermBase and assigns its own internal IDs to the terms. While this might mean that the original TBX concept IDs are not preserved, the relationships between terms are maintained, which is the most important aspect for translation work.

I agree it could be useful to have the same ID in Multiterm as the TBX but this idea could unravel over time due to differences in data models between TBX and MultiTerm, potential integration conflicts with other systems, issues with scalability and uniqueness of IDs, increased complexity in maintenance, potential conflicts with future updates to MultiTerm, and potential redundancy if the relationships between terms are effectively maintained without preserving the exact TBX IDs.

Nils Jörn said:
Let me try to clarify my problem a little:
My problem is, that some terms are "doublicated" and (therefore) have different properties/values during updating the MultiTerm database with the XML.

What options have you used for the import and can you share a small set of TBX files that would allow us to test and see if there's a way to manage it?

Paul Filkin | RWS Group

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+1 Gerhard Kordmann over 1 year ago in reply to Nils Jörn

Always entertaining to see the AI waffling away, but it's wrong. At least for the glossary converter it's not "because this is how these tools are designed to work.", it's "because there's a bug."

It was part of the todo list for the next release, so I had a look today. If you want, you can try the latest beta at https://cerebus.de/glossaryconverter/beta/index.html . As long as the tbx id is numeric, it should behave as expected and use the tbx id directly as the concept id in xml. the conceptId field is never seen by the user.

Depending on where you get your tbx from, the id can be nearly any string, like "asl-e4t-99n". MultiTerm can't handle this, so in a strict "No term shall be left behind" policy, the converter creates a unique random numeric value to replace it.

Maintaining termbases by merging in changes is a highly skilled job, and keeping ids is just a small step, but least that step can be done a bit more efficiently than making changes manually in notepad ;-)
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0 Nils Jörn over 1 year ago in reply to Gerhard Kordmann

Good morning Gerhard Kordmann ,

thank you for your update and especially for the new beta of the Glossary Converter. I've downloaded and checked it today. As far as I could see, now, the "conceptId" from the TBX is converted to the "concept" entry in the (MultiTerm) XML. Great!

In my case, the "conceptId" field in the TBX does only contain numerical entries. Therefore, in my case, there shouldn't be any difficulties, which could result from a string like i. e. "asl-e4t-99n".

I'm going to run some further checks with my TBX export and the conversion into the XML format for MultiTerm during this week.
If I should be faced with any (further) issues, I'll let you know.

Thank you very much again and have great day.

Best regards
Nils
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0 Paul over 1 year ago in reply to Gerhard Kordmann

Gerhard Kordmann

Gerhard Kordmann said:
At least for the glossary converter it's not "because this is how these tools are designed to work.", it's "because there's a bug."

I wish it was a bug in MultiTerm too then! Does that mean previous versions of the GC did this already? I had no idea, and it is a very cool feature that is just one of the reasons the GC is a must have tool.

Gerhard Kordmann said:
Maintaining termbases by merging in changes is a highly skilled job

Indeed... and often underestimated.

Paul Filkin | RWS Group

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0 Gerhard Kordmann over 1 year ago in reply to Paul

Paul it did not work properly before, hence the bug. I had put in the groundwork, but then another change broke it. That's why developers need external QA :-)
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+1 Edith Wagner over 1 year ago in reply to Paul

I ran some tests on my end as well and in my case, the „termEntry” element from the TBX was correctly converted to the „concept” element in the XML using MultiTerm Convert. When importing the XML into Multiterm, however, new Entry IDs starting with 1 were indeed created. But this only happened when using the Default import definition. When using „Synchronize on Entry Number”, the entry numbers from the TBX were used.
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0 Paul over 1 year ago in reply to Edith Wagner

Edith Wagner

Thanks Edith... that's good to know. I suppose that does make sense although I would not have thought to try that approach.

Nils Jörn fyi.

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0 Nils Jörn over 1 year ago in reply to Edith Wagner

Hello Edith Wagner ,

thank you very much for testing and clarifying.

Best regards.
Nils
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0 Nils Jörn over 1 year ago in reply to Paul

Hi Paul ,

thank you for all your testing and considerations, too.

Best regards
Nils
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Trados Studio > 3. MultiTerm

EntryID during conversion from TBX to XML + XDT

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