Use of "all language pairs" at both the "Options" and the "Project" levels?

Question

Dear SDL Community,

OK, I have dutifully searched the documentation and the Community but I can't figure out a basic question.

As I return to Studio after many years working with another CAT tool, I am departing from my usual "American" "Be a monkey and hit all the keys and figure out what they do" approach, to a more methodical "European" approach of actually going through the manual step-by-step, but I am still baffled.

I can understand why you would set up default, "Mother" TMs for each language pair, both in the Options window and in Project Settings.

But since Studio file-based TMs are by definition bi-lingual, not multi-lingual, I cannot understand why you would have Translation Memories at the "All Language Pairs" level.
AutoSuggest Dictionaries are at the Language Pair Level - why are TMs at the All Language Pairs level?

It would seem that you could only put multi-lingual Server TMs in the "All Language Pairs" level.

Am I missing something?

Thanks,

Tom Fennell

Paul · Accepted Answer

tfennell 
 Wow... this is really difficult and time consuming to work through. It's also wrong on many levels. 'll try to explain but it's quite difficult because I feel as though I'm just repeating myself and then you do something else and think it's right, when it's not. 
 So some notes as I work through this, maybe not in the right order... just how my brain is working: 
 tfennell said: In the attached archive LTR Test 13.0 I created a project with NO TMs, but when I try to add 4460 PMEM to the "All Languages" level, I get the error message: "This translation memory '4460 PMEM' will not be used for the following language pairs: Russian (Russia) -> English (United States) To edit the translation memories used for these language pairs, go to the individual language pair level." 
 This is because you have checked this box: 
 
 You are telling Studio to use a TM at the "Language Pair" level and then you tried to add a TM at the "All Language Pair" level. Result: works as expected and you are advised to add the TM where you already told Studio you wanted to. So the application is making sure you do the right thing. 
 tfennell said: In the attached project LTR Test 15.0, when I used the TM "4460 PMEM" with advanced segmentation rules at the "All Languages" level, the resulting file has only basic, not advanced segmentation. I did **not** include the Russian language resource template as a stand-alone setting (for when there is no TM) at the level of: All Language Pairs>Translation Memory and Automated Translation>Language Resources. 
 Same problem as before: 
 
 You added your customised TM at the "All Language Pairs" level, but you have told Studio to ignore that and use the resources at the "Language Pair" level. Result: Studio did what you told it! 
 Frankly I think all of your problems are becoming clear now. You are adding resources to the "All Language Pairs" and then telling Studio not to use them. I can't do anything with your other project as there seems to be something wrong with it and the translatable file isn't there... but I reckon the same problem is the one you need to investigate. 
 tfennell said: As for me not "mixing and matching," as they say in the great "Show Me" State of Missouri - I can show you! 
 Hopefully this shows you why I said it's not a good idea to mix and match.

tfennell · Answer

Dear Paul, OMG!!!!! Hurrah!!! 
 Yes, I just tested it with a new Project 17, and everything works as you described it was supposed to. Everything came down to that little box "use different translation providers for this language pair," at the Language Pair which I did not previously see or pay attention to! I was focusing on actually adding bilingual TMs at the All Languages or the Language Pair level, not on this little box which has such a tremendous effect on how such TMs are used. And that little box gets checked automatically somehow (I won't take your time or mine to figure out that one now, but I trust I'll eventually get it sorted out now). Steven had pointed this box out his extensive post, but I focused on the issue of bi-lingual TMs, and I skipped over it. How embarrassing for me, how frustrating for both of us! The one consolation I can give you is that you have saved me much, much grief if I had continued to ignore this checkbox as I move forward with Studio. Now I have lots of questions about best practices with using All Languages and Language resource templates, but I will save those for another thread, and another day, so as to give us all a break and so as not to get that issue all mucked up in the midst of this voluminous mess all caused by my blindness in regard to one little checkbox! I hope you share my feeling that things are no longer "so wrong on many levels", and that things have now been set right. I definitely owe you one big time for getting me to the "promised land" with this one. Thank you so much! Very best regards, Tom Fennell

Paul · Answer

tfennell 
 The basic idea is that the settings at All Language Pair level can be applied across all the TMs you use in a multilingual project in one go. The specific language pairs allow you to have more control over these same settings by using different ones for each language pair. Some things can only be set by specific language pair so these settings are at that level.

Lydia Simplicio · Answer

Hello tfennell , 
 In SDL Trados Studio, you will typically select file based TM's at the 'All Language Pairs' Level (Global Settings), 
 These settings are then use for each language pair contained below (multilingual project)

If I now take a specific language pair- you will see the settings are taken from 'All Language Pairs' 
 
 If you wish to use alternative 'Translation providers' and different settings for a specific Language Pair- you are able to do this- 
 
 Now you can change the settings (search/penalties etc) for the individual Language Pair- which won't affect the Global settings 
 
 Here for example the original All Language Pairs default setting and the changed Minimum Match Value for the individual language pair.

Hope this helps.

Paul · Answer

tfennell 
 tfennell said: What I don't see is why you would want to ever want to include a bi-lingual, file-based TM at the All Language Pair level. 
 I thought I'd clarified that point... my bad then. If you have a multilingual project with 40 language pairs and they all use the same settings (the ones available at All Language Pair level) then this avoids setting them up 40 times. You have plenty of options at this level too.

Paul · Answer

tfennell 
 tfennell said: But why would you create or use an EN-fr-FR bilingual ****file-based TM*** at the "All Languages Level?" It would seem necessary to have *bilingual* file-based TMs created or used for each of the 40 languages at the Language Pair level. 
 If they were all using the same settings then you would just add all of these 40 TMs in one place, at the All Language Pair Level. 
 Perhaps you are just reading this phrase incorrectly... it's the place to add "All....... language pairs" when they have the same settings. 
 If you like, because you are only working with one TM, you can put it at the specific language pair level. It doesn't matter at all! The only time you could see problems is if you mix and match. So if you use an en-fr TM at all language pairs, and also add one at the en-fr language pair level, then it can cause odd results. I've seen this when translators receive packages and ignore the message (not as obvious as it used to be in previous versions) that a specific language pair is being used, and the add their own TM at All Language pair level. So best to use one or the other. 
 Does this help?

Alison Field · Answer

Hi tfennell 
 The segmentation rules are applied (i.e. created, changed, added, removed, reset) by the user to the TM, by accessing the TM settings via the Translation Memories View, as here:

These rules are then applied by the TM itself on creation of the project.You can't apply segmentation rules to an existing project by changing the TM segmentation rules via the 'All Languages' or individual 'Language Pairs' levels as they have already been applied to the sdlxliff by creation of the project (or by using File>Translate Single File). 
 Any changes you make at either level will only alter the settings in the TM itself and any subsequently-created sdlxliffs/projects. 
 All the best, 
 Ali

Alison Field · Answer

Hi again tfennell Tom, 
 See my other reply to your other post... 
 You can't apply segmentation to an existing project from within that project. 
 Segmentation rules are created via the settings of the TM itself, regardless of where you access them from, and only take effect the next time that TM is used to produce a new sdlxliff. 
 Does this help? 
 All the best, 
 Ali

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Use of "all language pairs" at both the "Options" and the "Project" levels?

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